September 16, 2001

Jeffery (America Hater)......Blue
Hal Netkin..........................Red

...What excuse does Chuck have for advancing the same stupid, racist, opinion. For five years, I and other people have been subjected to his nonsense about Pacifica affairs, now he had the audacity to send this piece, wrapped like Billy Graham in the American flag...
Unfortunately Jeffery and others call the necessity to secure the borders of the USA, and to implement a sane immigration policy "racist".

Apparently the only tactic left to defend this madness is call people "racist" .........and to try to denigrate the intelligence of others who have been maimed by this tragedy.

What a disgusting way to try to justify the horror and carnage.

The intellectual bankruptcy of the argument for open borders in light of this horrible catastrophe has been laid bare.
Dear America Hater:

Apparently, you eat up the idea that if the people of Isreal all swam out to the sea as the Palestian manifesto calls for, and the U.S. apologizes for its "misguided' foreign policy and promises never again to support Isreal, that the Islamic fanatics would then turn in their arms and everything would just be peachy keen.

These Islamic fanatics believe their religion is divine and all other religions must go. Ask any Afghani who escaped the Taliban who is now living in the U.S. or other free society. The fanatics know we could nuke them if we wanted, but their whole terrorist strategy is based on the good morality of the U.S. They know we won't do it.

Now let me ask you this question: if these Islamic terrorists had an atomic bomb, would they use it on us? If you don't know the answer to that, you are the epitome of naivety.

Although your defense of these terrorists with your political rhetoric disgusts me, you, nevertheless have the right to spew your ideas in this country. Now let me ask you another question. Do you think that if the citizenry of Afghanistan spoke out against Osama bin Laden, they would go unmolested as you go? Again, If you don't know the answer to that, you are the epitome of naivety.

Of course the majority of Islamics are peace loving and are not terrorists. But unfortunately, the majority of terrorists are Islamic.

Hal Netkin
In believing "their religion is divine and all other religions must go," the Islamic fundamentalists find common ground with Jewish fundamentalists who are only distinguished by quantity and not quality. Neither group represents the majority of their respective religions. Several  months ago the chief Rabbi of the Mizrachim (Middle Eastern Jews) Ovadia Yosef publicly called for the Arabs to be "annihilated." His equivalent for the Ashkenazi (European) , Rabbi Meir Lau was somewhat more humane, saying only that Israel's assassination policy is a "commandment from God."
You are correct. Fundametalist fanatics whether Jew or Muslim are evil. Also evil, are persons like yourself who try to justify evil acts with tit-for-tat two-bads-make-a-right rationalizations.

And as an Ashkenazi Jew myself, I abhor those "kill-em-all" fundamentalist clerics regardless of their distorted religious values. But when is the last time a bunch of Israeli backed Hasidim Jews hijacked a plane? When that happens, unlike yourself, I will be the first to unconditionally condemn them.
There is nothing in what I wrote or believe that justifies or defends those people who carried out their heinous acts against innocent civilians, as there is nothing in "the Palestian (sic) manifesto" that calls for "the people of Isreal (sic)" to be thrown in the sea. Sharon and a few others, maybe, but that would be too good for them.
What planet are you on? One of the conditions asked for by Israel in attempts at peace, is for the Palestinians to remove from their constitution, the part that says their goals are for complete destruction of Israel. (pushed into the sea is the street rhetoric used by Arafat and his followers -- the same followers seen on TV dancing with joy at thousands of innocent Americans going to their death).
I find, in true Zionist tradition, that you discount the deaths caused by US imperialism throughout the world that most Americans have been trained to care nothing about, as there was no movement in Israel that opposed Israel's weapons sales to apartheid regimes of South Africa and Rhodesia, to the Nicaraguan Contras and to Somoza before them, to the murdering militaries of Guatemala and El Salvador, or to the Renamo killers of Mozambique. The difference in the US case is that people simply didn't know and have been conditioned not to know or care.  In Israel's case, the people did know, because that country's nefarious dealings were reported in the Hebrew press. But they decided, as was evident, by their lack of any significant movement against dealing with international murderers and public statements to that effect, that anything was justified to preserve Israel as a Jewish state.
You are a semanticist who likes to make arguments based on literal meanings. No there is nothing you said literally that justifies the evil actions of the terrorists, but your rationale and overt hatred of America makes clear your meaning. I liken your defense of the terrorists to the lawyer who defends a drunk driver who ran over and killed a pedestrian by blaming the car manufacturer for designing faulty brakes.

The great irony emerges, that while America haters like yourself are trying to convince Americans (no hyphen) like myself how bad America is, most of us including most immigrants, like it the way it is -- and will defend our country to keep it that way.
Do I think the followers of Bin laden would use an atomic bomb against the US? Yes. and it might sadly come to that if we launch a war in Afghanistan like it seems Dubya and Powell are contemplating.
Stop! I'm having a deja vu. I recall the great Soviet missile crises in 1963 when JFK blockaded the Soviets from Cuba and gave them an ultimatum to remove their missiles from Cuba, or face (nuclear) war. The better-red-than-dead people like yourself wanted the U.S. to capitulate, pointing out as you do, that our foreign policy was to blame for the crisis. We didn't capitulate and the Soviets removed their missiles from Cuba.

Your above statement is a good argument to nuke them now. But we are a peace loving country, America has a history of reacting only to crises -- the giant says "knock the chip off my shoulder" before I make you feel sorry.

"War is evil, but it is often the lesser evil." -- George Orwell
Now stop making a bigger fool out of yourself than you already are.
America, like all types of governments, has its winners and losers. You have to have a little ingenuity to take advantage of American capitalism, freedom, and opportunity. Fortunately, by comparison, unlike other totalitarian countries which you defend, the ratio of American winners to losers is high. From your hateful rhetoric of America, I can only conclude that you are one of the sour grape losers.

Note: I ended this exchange because it deteriorated at this point when Jeffery ran out of debate ammunition and resorted to antisemitic insults and calling me four letter words.

Hal Netkin